Have you thought about that issue, debated it, considered where you stand on it? And, you know, hopefully not in my areas of expertise they were making discoveries. CLIFFORD SCHORER: and he said, you know, "You need to be involved in this museum; you need to be involved with this museum." Judith Olch Richards (1947- ) is former executive director of iCI in New York, New York. JUDITH RICHARDS: Did you talk to him about collecting at all? But, yes, there did come a time when I sold the house, where I said, you knowall the blue-and-white went to Sotheby's. And I said, "Well, whatever your normal process is, just do your normal process. CLIFFORD SCHORER: But I just meet people and just, you know, wander around with them. There's a plaque to my grandfather, dedicated to my grandfather, but it doesn't say anything about me. JUDITH RICHARDS: Restorations that are hidden? JUDITH RICHARDS: You were tired of Virginia. Because, you know, there was the idea that 550 objects could just be chucked into auction; you know, you could have a publicized sale and get rid of the company, and, you know, the library could go to the nation, and the archive could go to the National Gallery, and, you know, wash your hands with it. Presumed owner of the real estate located at 21 Claremont Park, Boston. In that case, yes. He also practised printmaking. [Laughs.] Periodically, they'll have them here in New York when theythey'll have a dinner with the Belgian ambassador, and they do this sort of thing. florida sea level rise map 2030 8; lee hendrie footballer wife 1; I mean, you know. I'm trying to think. So I had readI forgot which painting it was; it was the [Bernardo] Strozzi. He's doing all of these really focal things. JUDITH RICHARDS: What year would that be? JUDITH RICHARDS: [Laughs.] CLIFFORD SCHORER: All of them. So that's why it's amazing now, because we're at a time when people are out hunting all the time, which is great. And there was one large mud sculpture of a horse on the floor in the lobby at Best Products. I mean, veryyou know, the Inverted Jennys, the Zeppelin sheet. I mean, everyone who came to visit me said, "Welcome to old lady land.". JUDITH RICHARDS: Yes. To add more books, click here . CLIFFORD SCHORER: And I know, for example, Ordovas Gallery was able to do a Rembrandt and Francis Bacon show, and there I think the motivation was they got the Bacon. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yeah. CLIFFORD SCHORER: So what I did instead was, when I put in on loan to the Museum of Science, I made the Museum of Science call him and invite him to come for the opening. So, you know, one major painting today selling for $25 million, even though the gallery may only make a commission on it, is still more than the gallery sold in adjusted dollars in 1900. Had you been thinking about it? Winslow Homer. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Or the auction houses, yeah. CLIFFORD SCHORER: And it may get burned, and it may also have little to no attention paid to it, because it may be lost in a sea of other things, and this exciting story we have to tell about your picture will be utterly lost. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Only well after that. What we can do, though, is we can use the tools of taste-making to try toyou know, again, our market is so small that an expansion of one collector is a significant expansion. JUDITH RICHARDS: Could anything be done? So that was fun, and I think that the institution now is so much stronger having that collection, because that tells the story of the history and the history of art history. It's the same sort of, you know, psychological idea. And when I came back to them to ask about it and, you know, pursue it, they said, "Oh, the National Gallery of Washington just bought it," so it was gone. But I'm not going back to school." Is this Crespi?" And since I'm, you know. And I saw my name alone in a category, and I was very shocked, because I had never said, "You may do that." CLIFFORD SCHORER: Not long. My father got me fired. JUDITH RICHARDS: There isn't a lot of coverage of Italians, CLIFFORD SCHORER: I read articles in the Burlington, I read articles in, you know, Prospettiva, you know, yes. Have you ever thought of writing about the works? JUDITH RICHARDS: or any of that sort of stuff . Then eventually, a drawing surfaced. CLIFFORD SCHORER: You know, we were in the marketplace. I mean, I was programming cash registers at that point, so it was very interesting. [They laugh.] Retouching, restoration [00:44:00]. So it really was a question of lobbying to say, "Look, I'll make this better for you over a period of years," than doing it this way. SoAnna Cunningham; she doesshe's the one who sort ofshe keeps all the sheep herded; so she keeps us focused on what we need to do [laughs], and she manages all of the gallery operations. Do they focus entirely on Rubens or Rubens and his, CLIFFORD SCHORER: Rubens and his orbit, yeah. JUDITH RICHARDS: Whenas we're getting into the '90s, is that when the involvement with painting started? I mean, it was basically, you know, not anyou know, it was like you're trying to pass the day away; you're walking around the city; and there's this building that's 40 feet wide, 60 feet deep [laughs], you know, and you go in, because it's open, and, you know, they charge nothing to go in. So it wasyou know, thatit's not as if you canat the level we're talking about in paleontology, there's not many opportunities. Well, I mean, there was a collector-dealer, I think. JUDITH RICHARDS: And you happen to be able to have this person who [laughs] shows you proof, too. [00:04:00]. So, around that time, I had met a few dealers in the Old Master world, and I did start to either back or buy with the intention of selling, which I hadn't done before. There are a lot of areas that are uncontrolled in the museum, like all the antiquities are in areas that are uncontrolled. JUDITH RICHARDS: Why did you focus on Boston for college? And that's not my world at all. So the Worcester experience was a very interesting one and actually was perfect, because Worcester is the size that it is. He said, "Yes, I'm Jim." That are in, you know, the rarefied collectors' hands. CLIFFORD SCHORER: too much of a philistine, but obviously economics play a role in my thinking when Ilet me rephrase it, so that I seem less a charlatan. Eight years later, have it end up on the auction market, have it sell and not be paid, and then come back again. And I went down there to go to my old cube [laughs], and it was still there. So, it's an interesting, you know, circle. So [00:30:04]. Directory of Profiled Business People: Clifford Schorer Schochler, Christopher - Schroeer, Jordan > Schoppers, Lynn - Schorer, Deborah > Schorer, Brittany - Schorer, Clifford > Schorer, Clifford 1 Contacts CLIFFORD SCHORER: And I was able to make some pretty interesting and exciting discoveries, things I recognized were by the artist that others may not have, and I was able to buy them. JUDITH RICHARDS: Did you find it fulfilling? CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yeah. ], I mean, I remember I got it back to Boston, and it was hangingit's hanging in the photos. CLIFFORD SCHORER: I worked thereso while I was working there, my father was lobbying hard to get me to go back to school. But you know, of course, he's not writingin my mind, I think of him as a historian rather than an art historian. So it wasn't that I had a great knowledge; it's just that I thought Boston was very beautiful. A Massachussetts man filed suit against Sotheby's on Monday, saying he's the rightful owner. In their day, they weren't particularly valuable, which is why they're strewn all over Boston. So all of the art that he did have was gone. So what we had to focus on was, Were they 20th-century, or 19th-century with apocryphal marks? Because you know, thenand you understand what happens there. [00:40:10]. I worked very hard on the programs. JUDITH RICHARDS: So coming back to your, CLIFFORD SCHORER: family. Relatives. CLIFFORD SCHORER: where you sort ofyou readyou know, I've read some really interesting studies of juvenile ceratopsians and how their horn formations develop. And that was really my main goal. This isto me, this is one of the great paintings of Procaccini. Or was it a matter of opportunity, that you would look at what was out there and decide what you wanted and give. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Absolutely. So. Schorer also recalls Anna Cunningham; George Abrams; Sydney Lewis; Chris Apostle; Nancy Ward Neilson; Jim Welu, as well as Rita Albertson; Tanya Paul; Maryan Ainsworth; Thomas Leysen; Johnny Van Haeften; Otto Naumann; and Konrad Bernheimer, among others. CLIFFORD SCHORER: That would've been a little bit early. Are there any people there who sort of are the continuation? He had eyelashes of copper. ], JUDITH RICHARDS: That's okay. And I mean, when Iaestheticsmy aesthetics are a little sensitive, so I do haveI did buy a Gropius house that Hans Wegner did the interior of. Just feeling and looking at the objects, and. JUDITH RICHARDS: Would you say that's one of the most gratifying occasions, and that that kind of experience is a key element for driving you to that kind of scholarship and scholarly discoveries, driving you as a collector? And at the end of that exerciseI have some wonderful photos of that house, because it wasI sold that house two years agoand it was a long process. JUDITH RICHARDS: And is there official paperwork that goes along with that? I don't want to do anything fancy." JUDITH RICHARDS: And he was keeping up with you. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Well, for me, personally, I think that, obviously, I feel much happier when something is on public view, and there's somebody telling someone something about it. JUDITH RICHARDS: Into the prospective buyer's living room? And then he had a very complete American collection. And, you know, that's a fun game, and it yields some fruit, it really does. So, you know, there was that frustration, that you can never haveyou know, you can never have an encyclopedic stamp collection because you're always going to bethe lacuna is the same lacuna every other collector is going to have. So, you know, they were generally illustrated. And I think her contribution to the house was some amazing curtains, which cost me a fortune. The central figure is Olive Blake. So back then, you know, I did a lot of assembly code, and COBOL, and MDBS. I mean, I know that. And the market was not very discerning, because there were enough people in it to absorb all that material. You know, I never thought of it as a practical way to improve the quality of the collection until recently, like until the last 10 years. Winslow Homer. She's great. Absolutely. Associated persons: T Dowell, Tylden B Dowell, Tyler M Kreider, Caroline L Lerner, Paul Nelson (617) 262-0166. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yeah, it's the Art of Europe. So, you know, we've had the gamut; you know, we've had the gamut. I'm not in Boston that often anymore, and I have no art in that house at all. But he was a really interesting and strange man. JUDITH RICHARDS: Did you learn that as a child? I've spoken to Jon a few times. CLIFFORD SCHORER: This was my father's side. And also, my grandparents wanted me to be a child. He was a dealer and, you know, and an ennobled Italian, and it was in his collection. And I saw Daniele Crespi as an artist who is equally competent but died so young that he never really established his name. JUDITH RICHARDS: You're going to art auctions? CLIFFORD SCHORER: You know, why does this woman look like a skeleton? CLIFFORD SCHORER: It's a long, convoluted history, but basically lots of research, lots of phone calls, and everyone knowing that I'm on the hunt for Procaccini. I don't want to say thatI don't want to take anything away from the scholars who do serious scholarship, because what I'm doing is really applying an acuity of eye to a question, and that's a very, very tiny aspect. I've got some French examples. My great-grandfather, when I was around eight or nine years old, gave me a Hefty trash bag with 80,000 postage stamps in it and said, "Sort these out." Yeah, which I will acquire, just because it's related to the painting. ONE SIZE ONE SIZE 16.0cm10.8cm5.3cm ! . No, no, no. All orders are custom made and most ship worldwide within 24 hours. You know, they were careful. CLIFFORD SCHORER: So I don't think I could ever give it up. Winslow Homer. CLIFFORD SCHORER: No, we were in auctions, competing with other people who were in the trade, so often your sort of very important thing to keep in mind was what everybody else was doing relative to something you were interested in: who was on it, who was not on it, that sort of thing. And to have somebody really sort of advocating, you know, going to bat for them the way he does, you know, with the Corpus Rubenianum especially, but, you know, with everything. JUDITH RICHARDS: But you would still be in conflict. CLIFFORD SCHORER: You know, there wereI would say. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Oh, I thought it was great, yes. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Of which I can appreciate; I mean, I understand that. CLIFFORD SCHORER: And that was talking to art historians, which is something. So several years later he passed away, and apparently they hadn't yet sold the Procaccini. And we've obviously done a lot of work on our Pre-Raphaelite exhibition, which was kind of a protractedwe did, basically, a two-year Pre-Raphaelite fiesta, with lots of publications. I think we might have one extra letter in there, but that's okay. Well, I didn't have that crutch of dealing, so I had to earn money to collect. And if the auction house can earncan tell a client, "Well, we're not going to charge you anything; we'll charge the buyer. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Well, the big London galleries. And my grandfather, similarly, was not particularly book-learned but was an incredible engineer. CLIFFORD SCHORER: That is from my paleontological collecting. JUDITH RICHARDS: Well, let's remember to get back to that. JUDITH RICHARDS: So you had developed an interest in architecture? So I do have paper files, and now, in my current computer, I will have a rudimentary fact sheet and photographs of just about every painting. Monday-Friday, excluding Federal holidays, by appointment. So I did start scaling that down, but I did always imagine every time I scaled it down, I would keep this sort of select group. And they probably bought it the week before, because the trade was very different back then. And so, yeah, I mean, there were a number of things, a number of hats that I had to shed to sort of, I think, stay within what. So, you know, it's the conversation at the cocktail party, I suppose [laughs], but, you know, maybe not the cocktail party some people want to go to. JUDITH RICHARDS: Do they focusexcuse my ignorance. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yes, I mean, I think if I limited myself to sort of, you know, the quality of the paint, I think, in a way, that would be unsatisfying to me. And, you know, when the euro was new. And it sounds like you had a much broader approach, or deeper approach. That's always fun. You know, it's extremely interesting. List of all 147 artworks by Winslow Homer. And he said, "Well, ironically enough, Sotheby's"and I knewI could feel this sort ofwithout even asking the question, I knew that Noortman's days since the death of Robert Noortman were numbered. Then I went back off to high school. And, obviously, I can continue that when I put something on loan by going into the room and listening to people talk about it, you know, and that adds to the experience around the art. In A Fishergirl Baiting Lines (1881) a young fishlass is shown baiting . The US family who owned it believed it was a 20th-century reproduction. CLIFFORD SCHORER: I lovethat's something I did start doing in 2008. Do we think this is this?" And I got out of school and I moved down to Virginia, where I got a job in computer programming. Cliff has been . JUDITH RICHARDS: yourself a kind of an allowance of paintings? You're living in Boston. And [00:14:03]. They've become broad-market marketing techniques. So I was born in 1966 in Rockville Centre, New York. You know what I mean. CLIFFORD SCHORER: I was a willful and independent child. CLIFFORD SCHORER: when I bought the company that year. I enjoy exhibitions at the Frick and at the Met. Clifford Schorer says he loaned Rendall an unspecified amount of money in 2012, and she backed the. But the languages that I really learned and loved were French and the Slavic languages. CLIFFORD SCHORER: You know, it was the right moment. So, to me, that was, you knowthat was my day at that curator table, where I was silent the whole time, and at the end, I just sort of put the trump card down. CLIFFORD SCHORER: So, oftenin that case, I would have to call up an Italian curator. It was never conceived as sort of being able to carry, you know, a 19th-century or earlier painting. It was amazing. So, you know, in the stamp world, yes. CLIFFORD SCHORER: It's a loan, yeah, yeah. I spoke to the auctioneers quite a bit. The book isso, Hugh Brigstocke and his new. You know. And so the market of those dedicated folks is shrinking. I mean, who am I? I lasted six months. CLIFFORD SCHORER: And again, we got plenty of press about it. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Well, we didn't get that far because they were literally setting it up when I arrived. And they tended to be a little unstable. I loved the flea markets in Paris in those days. So the short answer is that they may like to have it. Our older colleagues might have found it charlatanism, but that's understandable. You know, everything. There they prepared the fish for despatch to the fishmarket in . JUDITH RICHARDS: And you talked about enjoying lending. And I'm trying to remember exactly what it hammered down at, but it hammered down at the reserve, which was something like [$]680,000, CLIFFORD SCHORER: to me. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Renovations; purchasing a company; selling a fiber optic switchyou know, whatever it isyou know, building a shelteryou know, we do all sorts of different sort of project-based companies, and nothing has cash flow, meaning I don't sell widgets and collect the 39-cent margin on a widget, and I don't sell X number widgets a year. Relocating to New York, he undertook assignments for Harper's Weekly, among other journals, and enrolled in drawing classes at the National Academy of Design. Those days are long over. I don't know if, CLIFFORD SCHORER: I don't know if I would say collecting books. And then send it away andI'm trying to remember who did the book. This interview is part of the Archives of American Art Oral History Program, started in 1958 to document the history of the visual arts in the United States, primarily through interviews with artists, historians, dealers, critics and administrators. I mean, in a way, there isthere is still this desire to be involved in the business, to be building things, to be working on projects. I ended up there, and I made the deal with the devil, which was if I was first in my class, I could not go back. And they're outside smoking cigarettes, and they're not talking about art. That's not going to happen. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Oh, I've alwaysI don't know. CLIFFORD SCHORER: And I neededI needed to. This growing passion? The reality was, it was cheap. Joan Cusack, actress. And it came up for bid, and I was bidding on it, and I think it ended up pushing over [$]1.7 [million], and I was out. It's a very complicated taxation and business question, but basically, there was almost as much incentive for them to liquidate the company as there was to sell it. And also, you have to catch them at their exact moment in time, because they erode as they emerge, so if you don't find them as soon as they start to emerge, then, you know, you lose them to time. I don't know how many there were that were unsorted. [Laughs.] So he would've been 20 or so around then. Frankly, taste-making is not something we can pioneer. Not just multiple helmets. JUDITH RICHARDS: Have you ever tried to, or wanted to, learn how to do any of the kinds of ceramic work or painting or whatever yourself to see what's entailed? [Laughs.] CLIFFORD SCHORER: I'm starting to meet people. JUDITH RICHARDS: I mean, was there a dollar figure, or just call you "Chairman's Circle"? CLIFFORD SCHORER: So they depict the crucifixion scene as a maypole party. JUDITH RICHARDS: [Laughs.] And, you know, because of that, it creates incredible attribution controversies, which are passionate arguments about. Of the blue-and-white, and the highly decorated, sort of the Qing period stuff, that's all gone. But they don'tthey certainly don't show them together except in a rare circumstance, where they might have a focal exhibition where showing the preparatory things adds something to the didactic, not theit's not done simply to put the painting on the wall next to a print, you know, next to an engraving.